Had a conversation with Engilbert from Iceland the other day, main question was:
how do I make it in IM & how do I find a good coach?
Here it is, 100% uncensored;-)
[11/13/2013 10:35:21 AM] Engilbert: Veit, can I ask you a question?
[11/13/2013 10:35:36 AM] Veit UB Schenk: sure, it’s gonna cost ya though;)
[11/13/2013 10:35:38 AM] Veit UB Schenk: how are you?
[11/13/2013 10:35:47 AM] Veit UB Schenk: how’s life as a daddy?
[11/13/2013 10:36:29 AM] Engilbert: life is awesome to be a daddy you learn so much, I really love this. It’s also adorable to have such a cute and funny daughter, she just turned 3 years old. Thanks for asking.
[11/13/2013 10:37:01 AM] Engilbert: I wanted to ask you I’ve seen your names on some leaderboards, can you share with me the strategy, what you do to achieve getting into those leatherboards.
[11/13/2013 10:39:27 AM] Veit UB Schenk: lol, that one has 2 sides to the equation….
[11/13/2013 10:39:35 AM] Veit UB Schenk: so, short answer:
[11/13/2013 10:39:43 AM] Veit UB Schenk: build list, do segmentation, mail relevant offers.
[11/13/2013 10:39:46 AM] Veit UB Schenk: long answer:
[11/13/2013 10:40:17 AM] Veit UB Schenk: build trust & relationship with list (to the point where people email you saying “I just can’t get myself to unsubscribe from your list”), then mail relevant offers.
[11/13/2013 10:40:24 AM] Veit UB Schenk: and now it gets tricky…
[11/13/2013 10:40:36 AM] Veit UB Schenk: personally, I think most stuff out there is shit.
[11/13/2013 10:40:50 AM] Veit UB Schenk: so, I can only recommend very few products.
[11/13/2013 10:41:05 AM] Veit UB Schenk: however, that’s NOT a good strategy for making lots of money.
[11/13/2013 10:42:00 AM] Veit UB Schenk: if you don’t really care (and most people in IM don’t), then a much superior strategy is to build a list (ideally by releasing a couple of products), then scratch as many other IMers backs as possible by mailing for their shit and offering huge bonuses, then ask for a return favour later on.
[11/13/2013 10:42:25 AM] Veit UB Schenk: like I said: I can’t get myself to scratch other people’s backs, because most have shit products.
[11/13/2013 10:42:33 AM] Veit UB Schenk: end-result: I’m only on very few leaderboards.
[11/13/2013 10:42:36 AM] Veit UB Schenk: having said that:
[11/13/2013 10:42:54 AM] Veit UB Schenk: I don’t recommend you copy my strategy, at least not when you’re trying to make money in the IM niche.
[11/13/2013 10:43:10 AM] Veit UB Schenk: it’s a niche full of hype and BS, so you kinda have to be willing to play the hype & BS game.
[11/13/2013 10:43:32 AM] Veit UB Schenk: incidentally, also the main reason why I’m leaving the IM niche … planned total exit by end of this year
[11/13/2013 10:44:09 AM] Engilbert: I agree a lot of shit is being made.
[11/13/2013 10:44:31 AM] Engilbert: I actually do care about others.
[11/13/2013 10:44:58 AM] Engilbert: and yes, it’s a lot about those JV’s.
[11/13/2013 10:45:04 AM] Engilbert: (scratching other people backs.)
[11/13/2013 10:45:33 AM] Engilbert: interesting, that you are planning a exit strategy.
[11/13/2013 10:46:03 AM] Engilbert: what ways have you used to build your list?
[11/13/2013 10:47:06 AM] Veit UB Schenk: list-building: 99% through releasing own products.
[11/13/2013 10:47:36 AM] Veit UB Schenk: the rest is a little bit of paid advertising, solo-ads, and a couple of freebies.
[11/13/2013 10:48:07 AM] Veit UB Schenk: For me ‘own product’ wins hands-down because I end up with proven buyers (I have terrible results with solo-ads … full of freebie seekers).
[11/13/2013 10:48:48 AM] Veit UB Schenk: what I haven’t done and really should is generate leads through social media though … not because others are telling me that I *should* but because I’m social by nature, tend to be quite good at engaging people.
[11/13/2013 10:49:08 AM] Veit UB Schenk: plus, I like the fact that you can get to know each other so you can check each other out.
[11/13/2013 10:49:47 AM] Veit UB Schenk: at the end of the day, you need to pick what feels most natural to you.
[11/13/2013 10:49:52 AM] Veit UB Schenk: here’s my advice:
[11/13/2013 10:50:25 AM] Engilbert: I love social media, I’m good when it comes to making connection with people, I also agree with what you are saying.
[11/13/2013 10:50:44 AM] Veit UB Schenk: a) have a good long hard think in which market you want to plant your flag-pole. If it’s the IM niche, my advice would be to invent an alias, and then start scratching backs like mad. That’s how you make a LOT of money in that niche.
[11/13/2013 10:51:15 AM] Engilbert: I am listening..
[11/13/2013 10:51:29 AM] Veit UB Schenk: (meaning: if you are marketing to/with biz-oppers/MMOers and networking marketing crowds, for best results, you’ll pretty much have to enter hype-land)
[11/13/2013 10:52:23 AM] Veit UB Schenk: b) get clear about your core ‘value’ offering right from the start and become known for that ONE thing. Seriously, pay attention to this one point, I should’ve put that in #1 spot.
[11/13/2013 10:52:50 AM] Veit UB Schenk: NOTHING will get you to your goals faster than being an expert at **1** thing.
[11/13/2013 10:53:02 AM] Veit UB Schenk: I’ve made that mistake myself, and done a little bit of this, little bit of that.
[11/13/2013 10:53:08 AM] Veit UB Schenk: slowed down progress tremendously.
[11/13/2013 10:53:27 AM] Veit UB Schenk: however, gave me the insight I’ve just given you, so PLEASE, make sure you decide upfront what the ONE thing is.
[11/13/2013 10:53:42 AM] Veit UB Schenk: Ideally, make it something that’s popular and in demand, then find your unique twist.
[11/13/2013 10:53:58 AM] Veit UB Schenk: So, e.g. in IM, right now if you’re a kick-ass FB-wizard, that’s where a LOT of money is.
[11/13/2013 10:55:46 AM] Engilbert: when you say one thing? where are you going to move your focus to? I think you have a lot to offer the world and thats me being honest with you. About FB-Wizard, not quite sure about that, but I have created my own Facebook group, been helping people out, giving a lot of value to them and they respect me and some even see me as some God, I have more ideas I want to use in the future.
[11/13/2013 10:56:11 AM] Engilbert: and is there any coach you can recommend? or any program you got a lot out of? – What do you think of Dean Holland, Alex Jeffreys, etc?
[11/13/2013 10:57:58 AM] Veit UB Schenk: lol, as I have my own coaching program, you’re putting me in a tough spot;)
[11/13/2013 10:58:38 AM] Engilbert: let’s say your coaching is number 1, what do you teach in your coaching?
[11/13/2013 10:58:54 AM] Engilbert: and what do you think about the others? (I am not jumping there more curious)
[11/13/2013 11:00:29 AM] Veit UB Schenk: my coaching is focused on getting out of you where you have a “magic power” … something that’s of real value.
[11/13/2013 11:00:57 AM] Veit UB Schenk: in other words: something where YOU are the entrepreneur, and either it’s your product (or even YOU are the product), or
[11/13/2013 11:01:19 AM] Veit UB Schenk: you have insights into a market and then the product is created around those insights.
[11/13/2013 11:01:50 AM] Veit UB Schenk: I’m also all about fast-testing and fast-failing so you can learn from your mistakes and move on.
[11/13/2013 11:02:01 AM] Veit UB Schenk: this helps you figure out what people REALLY want.
[11/13/2013 11:02:09 AM] Veit UB Schenk: why?
[11/13/2013 11:02:32 AM] Veit UB Schenk: because typically, when YOU are the expert, you have insights and understandings that are not obvious, or even counter-intuitive to your market.
[11/13/2013 11:02:48 AM] Veit UB Schenk: meaning: they typically WANT stuff that’s NOT good for them, and you know what they NEED.
[11/13/2013 11:03:18 AM] Veit UB Schenk: the art & the science of the lean startup is then to quickly figure out through a series of experiments how to position the thing you know the NEED in terms of what they WANT.
[11/13/2013 11:03:33 AM] Veit UB Schenk: often enough these are very different things.
[11/13/2013 11:04:47 AM] Veit UB Schenk: so, I haven’t been in Alex or Dean’s program myself (Dean is a clone of Alex, so I imagine they’re very similar), however, I’ve had many people who were in Alex’ program come to me, and share their experience.
[11/13/2013 11:05:25 AM] Veit UB Schenk: so, overall, with Alex the focus appears to be more on ‘figure out where there’s a need/want in the market’, then build a sales-funnel around it, often enough with affiliate marketing.
[11/13/2013 11:05:44 AM] Veit UB Schenk: Which IMO is fine … as long as you’ve ‘done the work’ (DTW).
[11/13/2013 11:05:49 AM] Veit UB Schenk: here’s the thing:
[11/13/2013 11:06:16 AM] Veit UB Schenk: when you look at all these poster-boys (e.g. Dean) who take someone’s course, then overnight become a success (Dean takes Alex’ course, instantly makes money).
[11/13/2013 11:06:24 AM] Veit UB Schenk: well, turns out, they’d already done the work.
[11/13/2013 11:06:36 AM] Veit UB Schenk: they’d figured out most of the obstacles, how to overcome them.
[11/13/2013 11:06:49 AM] Veit UB Schenk: for them it was more like a “final push” to get them to breakthrough.
[11/13/2013 11:07:25 AM] Veit UB Schenk: if you come in with no idea in which direction to point your ship, you’ll just keep bumping into all kinds of obstacles…. and then you have to learn how to overcome them.
[11/13/2013 11:07:58 AM] Veit UB Schenk: and that’s exactly the situation in which all those who were in Alex program were and then came to me found themselves: “oh shit, another obstacle, now what”
[11/13/2013 11:09:05 AM] Veit UB Schenk: my experience is this: when you start with something you already know, something where you know (e.g. through personal experience) that there’s a problem, and you have the solution to that problem, now, that’s a whole lotta obstacles you don’t have to overcome.
[11/13/2013 11:09:13 AM] Veit UB Schenk: meaning: you can focus on what matters.
[11/13/2013 11:09:41 AM] Veit UB Schenk: namely, through experimentation, positioning what you’ve got in such way that people recognize the value and grab it out of your hands.
[11/13/2013 11:10:19 AM] Veit UB Schenk: Not, because you’re using dodgy sales-psychology (which is the case when you don’t really know the market), but because you have a true and solid understanding of their problems and you can communicate it to them.
[11/13/2013 11:10:42 AM] Veit UB Schenk: that’s my coaching, in a rather large nutshell;)
[11/13/2013 11:10:54 AM] Veit UB Schenk: So, having said all that:
[11/13/2013 11:11:20 AM] Veit UB Schenk: a) if you don’t have a clear direction in which you want to go, then my coaching isn’t appropriate.
[11/13/2013 11:12:37 AM] Veit UB Schenk: b) if you don’t have a direction and you “just want to make some money online”, and you don’t have solid prior experience actually doing this IM stuff, then I wouldn’t recommend anyone’s “you’ll make lots of money” coaching. Instead, I suggest you take ONE, any ONE course, and implement until the cows come home. And observe what works, what doesn’t, what the obstacles are and so on.
[11/13/2013 11:12:49 AM] Veit UB Schenk: once you’ve done that, then you can ask intelligent, directed questions.
[11/13/2013 11:13:18 AM] Veit UB Schenk: the type of questions that put you in the position where you’ve DTW, and hence have a great chance of succeeding with any coaching program.
[11/13/2013 11:13:32 AM] Veit UB Schenk: remember, coaching really is about getting out of you what you’ve already got inside you.
[11/13/2013 11:13:45 AM] Veit UB Schenk: if you have no prior experience, it’s time to get some experience first;)
[11/13/2013 11:17:22 AM] Engilbert: I do have experience, I am starting to understand how this works, I also understand this takes works, – It’s just it sounds like some coaching by those big ticket marketers, that people join those coaching, follow the instructions and then they are massive successful, not all but many of there students after implement what they are teaching, for example I laughted when you said he was a clone of Alex Jeffreys, because you are absolutely right, he just created products what he did, then people optin to his list, he then made his list bigger and bigger and promoted stuff to his list, surveyed his list and so on, you get the idea.
[11/13/2013 11:18:39 AM] Engilbert: – just found it nice to see your name on the leatherboards 🙂
[11/13/2013 11:19:12 AM] Engilbert: what programs, coaching can you recommend? and how much does your coaching cost?
[11/13/2013 11:19:31 AM] Engilbert: I mean, programs you’ve took in the past, recommend.
[11/13/2013 11:22:06 AM] Veit UB Schenk: lol, I wish I could tell you I took a really good one.
[11/13/2013 11:22:13 AM] Veit UB Schenk: I’ll tell you all the ones that didn’t work for me:
[11/13/2013 11:22:39 AM] Veit UB Schenk: Tristan Bull: $5000. Complete BS. Based on putting out free WSOs on the WF, building a list, then recommending stuff.
[11/13/2013 11:23:13 AM] Veit UB Schenk: Jeremy Kelsall: $2000: Complete BS. Based on “hey, I’ll help you make your next product launch a massive success”. All he did was promote to his own list.
[11/13/2013 11:24:20 AM] Veit UB Schenk: Frank Kern & Kevin Nations: $8000: complete waste of time. Extremely high-level like so many programs in personal development. “and now go and take massive action”. All about the “WHAT”, but no details on the “HOW” or even how to string the high-level concepts together.
[11/13/2013 11:24:22 AM] Veit UB Schenk: the list goes on.
[11/13/2013 11:24:37 AM] Engilbert: WOW
[11/13/2013 11:24:47 AM] Engilbert: appreciate this.
[11/13/2013 11:24:54 AM] Veit UB Schenk: all I can say is what I said above:
[11/13/2013 11:25:04 AM] Engilbert: why do you think so many people don’t achieve success with internet marketing?
[11/13/2013 11:25:17 AM] Engilbert: and what do you belief is the key to make it work?
[11/13/2013 11:25:22 AM] Veit UB Schenk: the REAL reason for success is
[11/13/2013 11:25:26 AM] Engilbert: I am listening.
[11/13/2013 11:25:49 AM] Veit UB Schenk: a) you need to point in a direction, doesn’t matter which one, but you have to have an idea what it is you want. The odds of failure are extremely high when you don’t.
[11/13/2013 11:27:17 AM] Veit UB Schenk: why? because when you don’t know in which direction to go, then your subconscious mind is going to pick up anything that’s related to your ‘vague’ goal (if you think your goal is to “make money” … anything and everything that promises to “make money” will look appealing. and you’ll be jumping from opportunity to opportunity. And no coach is going to stop you from jumping. And when you’re jumping from thing to thing, obviously, the number of obstacles you’ll encounter is HUGE.
[11/13/2013 11:27:52 AM] Veit UB Schenk: b) you need to have a track-record of success somehow related to where you want to go. Meaning: the more experience you have in what you’re trying to achieve, the better.
[11/13/2013 11:27:56 AM] Veit UB Schenk: think about it like this:
[11/13/2013 11:28:09 AM] Veit UB Schenk: if you set up your own online biz, you’re doing 2 things:
[11/13/2013 11:28:18 AM] Veit UB Schenk: you’re setting up and hoping to grow a business
[11/13/2013 11:28:19 AM] Veit UB Schenk: and
[11/13/2013 11:28:32 AM] Veit UB Schenk: you’re marketing (using Internet Marketing as the overall background)
[11/13/2013 11:29:17 AM] Veit UB Schenk: now, if you have no prior experience setting up, running and growing a business and no prior experience whatsoever with marketing, and no idea how to do html/set up a website, and no idea what an autoresponder is and no idea how to ….. then there’s trouble.
[11/13/2013 11:29:39 AM] Veit UB Schenk: Unfortunately, that’s exactly what all these “coaching programs” aim at:
[11/13/2013 11:30:05 AM] Veit UB Schenk: they tell you (and show you the proof of the handful of poster-boys who succeeded) that you can make a lot of money (which you can,btw;)
[11/13/2013 11:30:24 AM] Veit UB Schenk: and because you’re focused on “making money” (no matter how), their offer will look VERY appealing.
[11/13/2013 11:30:34 AM] Veit UB Schenk: odds of success: close to 0
[11/13/2013 11:31:12 AM] Veit UB Schenk: as proven by the number of people who then come to me and go “Veit, can you help me with this …”. My usual question: “So, why doesn’t Alex help you with this, you’re paying him $5000 for it after all”.
[11/13/2013 11:31:38 AM] Veit UB Schenk: the usual answer: “well, you know, he’s busy, and this is such beginner’s stuff, so he can’t explain all of that in detail”.
[11/13/2013 11:32:06 AM] Veit UB Schenk: btw, I’m NOT saying Alex’ program is bad, it’s not. In the right hands, it’s good.
[11/13/2013 11:32:21 AM] Veit UB Schenk: it’s just, IMO, he attracts too many people who want to make money, no matter how.
[11/13/2013 11:32:30 AM] Veit UB Schenk: and they then have close to 0 chance of success.
[11/13/2013 11:32:48 AM] Veit UB Schenk: anyway, that’s my take.
[11/13/2013 11:32:56 AM] Engilbert: WOW thank you so much.
[11/13/2013 11:33:01 AM] Engilbert: Let’s say.
[11/13/2013 11:34:05 AM] Engilbert: I focus on one product for a very long time, put real efforts into this, start to see success with it, then create my own product from this and build my relationship with the list, then just repeat this formula again and again. So the key is to pick *** 1 *** thing, master it, learn it and then teach others how to do the same.
[11/13/2013 11:34:11 AM] Engilbert: –
[11/13/2013 11:34:55 AM] Engilbert: I have a confession to make I’m a jumper and yes this is a big mistake to make, there is so many opportunites out there, so many offers, so many products, it’s easy to think the other guy is making a lot of money with x program and so on.
[11/13/2013 11:36:28 AM] Engilbert: so it’s easy to hit information overload, done this many times in my journey. However, I have also learn to get rid of it, I also have made money with building websites, I have even sold website and bought my car, outsourced everything. I have done a lot of things, sold crayola cards when I was little before Christmas in the block I was living in, I have actually done a lot, I have also failed a lot, it’s just so hard when things are almost looking so perfect for others but then I continue to fail, However, I belief one day, I can share the struggle story with others.
[11/13/2013 11:36:55 AM] Engilbert: and you are right when you say: subconcious mind, vague goals etc.
[11/13/2013 11:38:09 AM] Engilbert: it’s a real gift to be able to focus and stick to one thing.
[11/13/2013 11:38:21 AM] Veit UB Schenk: lol, regarding the “looking so good for others” … scrap that right away!
[11/13/2013 11:38:33 AM] Veit UB Schenk: a) it really doesn’t matter, and
[11/13/2013 11:38:36 AM] Veit UB Schenk: b) most of it is BS!
[11/13/2013 11:39:58 AM] Veit UB Schenk: [Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:34 AM] Engilbert:
<<< I focus on one product for a very long time, put real efforts into this, start to see success with it, then create my own product from this and build my relationship with the list,
[11/13/2013 11:40:03 AM] Veit UB Schenk: not quite, more like:
[11/13/2013 11:40:24 AM] Veit UB Schenk: focus on one value proposition, on one core problem people are trying to solve, then provide value and products around that.
[11/13/2013 11:40:33 AM] Veit UB Schenk: however, you’re right: that may well be ONE product to begin with.
[11/13/2013 11:40:58 AM] Veit UB Schenk: right, gotta run.
[11/13/2013 11:41:10 AM] Veit UB Schenk: if you want to talk about my coaching, let’s set up a date, and we can speak
[11/13/2013 11:41:17 AM] Veit UB Schenk: (just not in Icelandic)
[11/13/2013 11:41:19 AM] Engilbert: thank you very much
[11/13/2013 11:41:23 AM] Engilbert: HAHAHA YOUR FUNNY 🙂
[11/13/2013 11:41:30 AM] Engilbert: Þú ert frábær
[11/13/2013 11:41:34 AM] Engilbert: = You are Amazing
[11/13/2013 11:42:10 AM] Veit UB Schenk: exactly what I’d like to hear from my wife …. but no, taking out the rubbish and changing lightbulbs apparently is taken for granted these days…
[11/13/2013 11:42:11 AM] Veit UB Schenk: ah well
[11/13/2013 11:42:50 AM] Engilbert: later
[11/13/2013 11:42:52 AM] Engilbert: take care
[11/13/2013 11:42:57 AM] Engilbert: continue to wish you the very best
[11/13/2013 11:42:58 AM] Engilbert: 🙂
[11/13/2013 11:43:55 AM] Veit UB Schenk: 😉